tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9093436161326155359.post421275501982214611..comments2024-03-28T06:43:02.954+00:00Comments on Variable Variability: Tamsin Edwards, what is advocacy?Victor Venemahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02842816166712285801noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9093436161326155359.post-42124334168991520222014-10-14T17:06:28.213+01:002014-10-14T17:06:28.213+01:00The science that led up to the Montreal Treaty rel...The science that led up to the Montreal Treaty relating to the ozone layer was also politicised by vested interests and those who support them. The scientists who said that CFCs were causing depletion were attacked similarly to the hounding of climate scientists (and by some of the same people - see Merchants of Doubt book). The scientists were regarded as political by simply by saying that CFCs needed regulation. I greatly admire Tamsin Edwards for her approach because those attacking the science and scientists have created such a poisonous atmosphere that I think it is very important, particularly for those doing primary research, such as Tamsin, to both engage and be able to act as "honest broker". But we need people in interlocutor roles with sufficient understanding of the science and sufficient grasp of policy etc. to act as a bridge for policy makers. Often, these bridge people are ex scientists (ie no longer doing primary research). Ex policiticians won't cut it because they cannot summaries results in a fair and balanced manner and are too easily swayed by the latest headline. We also cannot lock up Tamsin's valuable time persuading outlier folk that CO2 is a greenhouse gas - now that would be wasting her precious time.Richard Erskinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9093436161326155359.post-34889027284430587152013-08-08T21:19:15.473+01:002013-08-08T21:19:15.473+01:00@Unknown. I expect that Tamsin Edwards will not di...@Unknown. I expect that Tamsin Edwards will not discuss political matters herself. No idea what her definition is exactly. You could call her current discussion post also politics.<br /><br />I do not expect that most climate ostriches that agree with her will naturally not keep their mouths shut. The rule they cheered for is just for scientists working on climatic questions.<br /><br />The irony is that many times I tried to discuss something (most homogenization) with climate ostriches, they actually tried to drag me into a discussion on politics. A much more pleasant topic, because in science you can be proven wrong.Victor Venemahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02842816166712285801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9093436161326155359.post-35786352628627660742013-08-08T20:07:01.817+01:002013-08-08T20:07:01.817+01:00Didn't Immanuel Kant propose a rational form o...Didn't Immanuel Kant propose a rational form of ethics that used the Categorical Imperative, which basically went: don't do stuff that you expect others not to do. A sort of updated Golden Rule - do unto others etc etc.<br /><br />Are Tamsin and those who agree with her going to impose a self-denying ordnance on themselves to avocate or critique policy?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08658697422961922139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9093436161326155359.post-76456069721999943322013-08-02T22:09:28.308+01:002013-08-02T22:09:28.308+01:00Marco, I agree, someone working on climate policy ...Marco, I agree, someone working on climate policy should naturally be "allowed" to communicate his work.<br /><br />Victor Venemahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02842816166712285801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9093436161326155359.post-27615488454967252902013-08-02T20:14:33.783+01:002013-08-02T20:14:33.783+01:00Let's also not forget that scientists are ofte...Let's also not forget that scientists are often asked whether specific policies will be helpful in achieving a certain goal. Some even specifically have this as their research area: testing how policies fit with the stated aims of those policies.<br /><br />If that climate scientist publishes his conclusions of that research, pointing out that some are better than others in achieving the intended goal, the pseudoskeptics will see him as an advocate...<br /><br />MarcoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9093436161326155359.post-7085780845115720062013-08-02T19:20:42.024+01:002013-08-02T19:20:42.024+01:00Daneel Olivaw, I also see no problem in talking ab...Daneel Olivaw, I also see no problem in talking about policies. <br /><br />However, in case of climate change, I also see no <i>need</i> for it. Political parties and politicians are supposed to take this role, as well as NGOs from Greenpeace to Heartland. <br /><br />If science is abused in such a discussion (e.g. WUWT) it is a task of scientists to correct this. At least if these fringe ideas start to pollute the public discussion as in the USA.<br /><br />In case of biodiversity, poverty, inequality and erosion, I do see a need for an active role of scientists, as these topics have not (hardly) made it into the public debate.Victor Venemahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02842816166712285801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9093436161326155359.post-26520048463778338302013-08-02T18:07:42.099+01:002013-08-02T18:07:42.099+01:00I understand what Edwards is talking about but the...I understand what Edwards is talking about but the question might be, if not scientists, who then will advocate for good policy? Everyone and their dog has an opinion about climate change, they vote and push for specific policies or even no policy at all, and scientists are supposed to keep quiet about it? No, I don't think so. <br /><br />As long as one is intellectually honest and open about one's expertise or lack thereof, I see no problem in talking about policies. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07982409667756307764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9093436161326155359.post-17303831365848616952013-08-02T07:35:47.396+01:002013-08-02T07:35:47.396+01:00In my opinion, pseudoskeptics perceive as "st...In my opinion, pseudoskeptics perceive as "stealth advocacy" whenever a climate scientist identifies human activities as the cause of warming and points out (or when pointed out by others) that the future impacts of this man-induced warming are negative.<br /><br />The concern has zilch relationship to any specific policies. They wouldn't care if Tamsin thinks a carbon tax or *any other policy choice* is a good idea if you want to reduce CO2 emissions. They'd have attacked for wanting to reduce CO2 emissions, because, as everyone knows, CO2 is not a problem.<br /><br />MarcoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com